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The gods of man reflect the people who created them, the Norse gods are swamped in war and raiding reflecting the Vikings, Greek gods are centered for the most part around commerce and science reflecting the Greek strengths, Roman gods are military tacticians as well city builders reflecting the Roman empire, the Christian god will forgive and crime committed in life as long as you repent, he is also a god of immense power willing to reward his believers for doing nothing but living by his rules, compared to the others where being a great man is required. The only real common thread between every single type of god I have seen is brutality (Giants, Titans, Demons) which most likely reflects the given churches desire to control people with fear. All in all if there is a god I really doubt anybody has gotten it right yet, no religion is complete they all have drawbacks in one way or another.

I don't really understand the question. Why should Jesus' words NOT be true, only because he's a late comer? Since when does truth depend on when it's being said? It's always true.

Einstein came much later than Newton, does that make his work suspicious? On the contrary. He had all the research and philosophical thinking done before him by other intelligent minds to stand on and from there to soar to new heights of science.

Same with Jesus. He showed the people a new way of connecting to God, through the heart, through compassion and humbleness. He tried to cut through the crap of too many gods and beliefs that only confused people rather than giving them a focus. His message was obviously needed at the time, otherwise it wouldn't have gotten such a strong response and deep respect.

I would alter Seven's statement to "the gods of man reflect the need of people who created them".

Now I don't want to go into what became of his message ...

While I certainly do question the truth of Jesus' message, I'm not actually questioning it in this post. I'm questioning the logic of choosing to believe it. There's a subtle difference. The God of the bible is clearly very different then the world of religion in the previous several millennia leading up to the year 0001. Therefore if God truly exists as Jesus would have us believe, then thousands of years of religious history prior to the time of Jesus are called into question and we are forced to wonder what was going on prior to that time. Clearly all versions of religious 'truth' cannot be correct. There is either one god, or many (or none). Therefore my question is

How can a reasonable person ignore 3000-8000+ years of religious doctrine and then embrace a completely different view of the creator(s)?

And that leads to a second question:

Why would God ignore the world prior to the coming of Jesus, allowing countless souls to be born, live lives and die with entire societies never knowing the 'truth'?

So you can see, this is not about wondering whether to believe in Jesus simply because he came to late, but whether or not it makes reasonable sense that his message is the truth when numerous societies thrived for thousands of years prior to his time - all of whom with various beliefs that were quite different from his message.

Now, I could be wrong here, but I think the answer to your question was covered in teh Bible. I *think* the whole point of Jesus' coming was _because_ people had lost their way and been worshipping all the 'wrong' kinds of gods and all that.

You know the whole "he died for our sins" assertion? I think it's mainly to do with the fact that none of us knew the real god.

(btw, you already know my beliefs on this topic... I'm not pushing the Bible here AT ALL. But I do work at a Church now, so if you ever want any really terrific insider info on the Creator, just let me know. he he..)

You're questioning the logic of choosing Jesus' message. I don't think logic is involved here at all. It's people's needs that are important when choosing a religion. Jesus was touching people in a deeper way than logic can reach. I think you are creating a problem where there is none.

As to your question, I think a reasonable person should not ignore 3000-8000 years of religion at all. One leads to the next, is what I believe. I don't think Jesus ignored it in the sense that he said, all before me was wrong and my truth is the only one. The only thing he was concerned about is the people who lose their religious focus with too many religions and belief systems around. So he tried to give people a focus, ONE focus, because only then it can be beneficial for them on an individual basis.

Now this might sound outrageous to some, but his message as I understand it is not about whether there really is only one God or not, his message is about that if people believe in too many things at once it distracts them, confuses them, and doesn't help at all. So he told people that there is only one God, because he saw that that would be most helpful for them.

He was intelligent, the first true psychologist, and truly concerned about the individuum. The belief system he created was meant to help people, it wasn't meant to be the only truth.

The God of Abraham allows free choice. You are judged on your choices, not forced into them.

I have pointed this out before. You seem to conveniently ignore this.

Your blog is a good idea. However, it seems to have been a Religion Bashing Podium.

You have been given explanations, but choose to ignore them

I am curious why you ask questions you dont wish answers too?

I'm not ignoring your opinions, but saying that God gave us free will doesn't answer the specific questions I've posed. Nor does it answer many other contradictions in logic. Frankly, Ash's comments were far more relevant, even if they still failed (in my opinion) to adequately address the questions of this article.

Challenging religious doctrine is something you should applaud. Playing the devil's advocate on such issues benefits everyone. Also, these concepts need to be challenged and no one else is speaking up. Religion is like a black die dropped into water, eventually seeping into every corner of existence. I shall not be silent while the world self-destructs around me. I'm working to change things for the better. That being said, there are far more religious people then non-religious and so there should be many more religious people writing back to argue these points. I'm looking forward to the dialog.

There will be many blog posts on other issues, certainly, but religion plays a major role in politics in spite of the wishes of the founders and therefore must come under equal scrutiny.

Your posts ask why God doesnt make us do something.

The answer is, he gives us Free Will. Many of your issues are why he doesnt intervene. He isnt involved at that level. We live, We make choices, We are judged.

That is it (synopsized)

God intervened once. It rained 40 dyas and 40 nights. After that, he promised not to do that again. He signified that promise with a rainbow.

Scrutiny at the expense of all else? There is a difference between scrutiny, and exception.

On several occasions, this has been answered. Yet you seem to base your additonal posts on the same premise.

If the answer seems to be repetitive, then one asks

Are you acknowledging the answers, or dismissing them.

Prisms occur when light is broken apart into it's various wavelengths. Do you mean to say that God changed the laws of physics to create a rainbow only after making it rain for 40 days and 40 nights? Are you saying you really believe that?

Why can't God change the laws of physics? God created the laws of physics. He can surely bend or twist them any way he wants at any time.

In the Bible - the Hebrews did believe in one God during much of this time. The other races of man had already turned their back on God.

Many wonder - why does God let blah blah happen. Perhaps it is because we don't listen to the advice he gives. So many implore God only after they have gone astray. Also - how are we to judge what is the best thing to happen. Pain and suffering here are miniscule if you believe that an eternity awaits you afterwards.

You have heard of the saying - no pain no gain. What lessons teach the best? A mother can tell her child a hundred times to touch a hot pan. But the child doesn't understand until he touchs the pan and learned about heat and pain for himself.

God isn't concerned merely about our lives here. He plans out our eternal lives. Many of the items that happen teach us humility - because pride is one of the largest causes of sin. Only by being truly humble can we approach God and not be overwhelmed.

So light had totally different properties then it does today prior to the big raining event.... The laws of physics were completely different in the universe? The properties of light and wavelengths are fundamental to how things work, and a change would mean many kinds of differences in everyday life. For instance mundane things like how fisherman fished would have changed, since light bending in water is what causes a prism in the first place. There's not really much I can say about that since I wasn't there, but it sounds most unlikely. I wish everyone questioned things that were very are unlikely.

Also, why would God need to promise not to intervene again? Isn't that kind of like admitting a mistake?

I know we're off topic at this point, but this is kind of interesting. It's remarkable to hear people who truly believe things like this.

You are presuming that was the first rainbow ever.

Im not.

"Also, why would God need to promise not to intervene again? Isn't that kind of like admitting a mistake?"

No, its saying, I won't bail you out again.

The mistake was mans, not Gods.

Man,

I am glad that you are debating these points. I'm glad someone will since I'm pretty tired of it. It seems that people are leaning towards not wanting to question.. they are leaning towards apathy more and more and more.

I won't go on and on about it but for me, this new religion sweeping the US (and Canada to an extent) is a harbinger of backwards motion for equal rights. Esp for women.

I don't like any of it. I don't like that people are able to set aside good logical judgment in favour of mythology. And yet.. they keep doing it.

So thanks... like I said, I'm too tired to do it right now. I have even given up on the news at the moment because it makes me sad.

"Why would the God of Abraham (that of the Muslims, Jews and Christians) allow almost every major civilization to practice polytheism for thousands of years prior to the time of Jesus?"

Maybe God wanted to streamline everything?

"And how do you rationalize the word of Jesus to be truth when he's one of the late comers to a world already full of widely held religious beliefs?"

Well, isn't the message of Jeasus the same as the overall message of the other gods/godesses? Treat others as you would be treated? I think it's also like dating...it doesn't matter who's the first...but who's the last (and the one you stick with)

*********** "I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be a token of the convenent between me and the Earth that I will never again destroy the world."

The rainbow was a symbol...not a new creation. So yeah, after 40 days and 40 nights of rain once it stops, and the first thing you see is a rainbow, you're gonna feel a lot of hope...

I'm also sure he promised never to do it again because he, like a lot of parents, went too harsh on a punishment. Humanity was "misbehaving", not following His rules (You've heard the saying..."My house, my rules") He got angry and decided to punish man. Once he saw what he had done...I bet He wasn't happy about what He had done - I'm not saying He's gonna think He was wrong or anything, perhaps that He was just a bit "over the top". I know if I was too hard on my kids, once I cooled down I'd embrace them and promise I'd never behave that way again either.

You aren't a father to anything, are you.

Gods reflect the lifestyles and thinking of the day when they are created by man.

As mankind progressed, so did the complexity of their newer Gods.

Bahai is the newest Christian faith, but unlike most, it reversed the complexity of the faith. It is fairly straightforward and easily understood.

Why is it easily understood, because it takes advantage of all other Christian faiths bt incorporating then int itself. It preaches the truth of Christian faiths by admitting that God has sent many "sons" or representatives to earth at different times, each with a message needed at that time.

Jesus message was love, but Bahai has a message of oneness, one earth, one mankind, one government.

They take all Christian faiths into one and simply add their own "latest coming" who was Bahaulai (sp)

They simplify things. No need for churches, or preachers. Just elders and you pray at group meeting in members homes, a social gathering.

No big cerimonies or huge weddings needs,simply say I take you as my wife three time and her likewise for you as a husband , in earshot of and elser and they are married.

Easy aye.

I gave Christianity up years ago as the stories it was, as the means of mass control it it, as the means of robbery it is.

Owl

huh?

"Bahai is the newest Chrisian faith"? The Baha'i Faith is an independant religion and has as much in common with Christianity as with other world religions (Judaism, Islam, etc.).

I'm also confused by your repeated use of 'Christian faiths' as in plural...faiths. As far as I know, Christ only brought one faith.

Also, in the Baha'i Faith there are no 'elders' and there are houses of worship. There is one in Wilmette, Illinois and another being constructed just outside of Santiago, Chile as we write.

Finally, the Baha'i marriage ceremony is simple but it does not involve the repetition of 'I take you as my wife' three times. There is a verse that is said by both the bride and groom but it is said once and it is: 'We will all verily abide by the will of God'.

Oh and, Baha'i weddings can be monstrously big affairs. I guess you've never attended a Persian wedding where it seems half the world is related to either the bride's family or the groom's family.

Hope that clears up some of the confusion.

I took a philosophy course, and it is funny because we came up with the fact that it is actually more likely that the world was created five minutes ago with all the memories you have now than that it has existed for millions and millions of years.

As for challenging faith? God has no problem with that. Jesus himself cried on the cross "oh God why have you forsaken me?". The point of Christianity is not that you follow it blingly like a sheep. You can question, but you must have faith in God. Not the Church, but Jesus and God. The way I justify this for myself, and I am in no way Christian but I have deep respect for Christians, is that God created this world for you, he gave you life, and then you ask why should you not go to Heaven? Why do you deserve to go to Heaven if you shun God and his Son and do not believe in him? You do not.

I also think people bash Christianity for more than it actually has caused. There is a big difference between the Church and Christianity. As a matter of fact, the early Christian Church in the the first few centuries AD had female priests. Christianity was truly a religion where everyone was equal. They did not even have a concept of a just war until the Crusades. Also, just because your life is horrible in this world, does not mean anything. You have a measly 100 years on the Earth and then you go to Heaven or Hell (btw, no mention of Hell in the Bible, go figure). So this is really just a pit stop. Anything that happens here is inconsequential.

As for God making mistakes? First all, you do not understand God's perfection nor will you ever, but that answer probably won't satisfy you, so here is another one. The Bible is the word of God written through Man. That means that it is not perfect. It just gets the general message through. The Koran for Islam is the actual word of God, and every word in there is true for Muslims. The Bible is not. God did not actually write that with his hand. So any contradictions in the Bible are either human failing to understand God in his words or in writing it down.

Another thing, not you the Man, I understand you are trying to understand why people believe, is it so hard to actually believe in something greater than yourself and perfect? Is it so hard to accept these people? Why must people bash Christianity? I do not think anyone who actually does bash Christianity or any other religion has any inkling of an idea of what type of life they are promoting. A God-less Universe is a horrifying idea. Can you even imagine a God-less, lawless world? A place without hope, a place devoid of meaning, where whatever you did mattered not at all to anyone? No you cannot. There is always some small part of you that believes you matter, even to the people around you. But how can you matter to them, when they don't matter at all. Just a blip on this planet's life span. It is inconceivable to imagine a God-less universe. Everyone believes they have a purpose in life. By saying there is no religion, no higher being, no anything, just science, you are not only promoting nihilism but a purposeless life. This may not be a bad thing. Nietzsche would say, all we need is an Ubermench to show us the way and lead us out of the darkness of nihilism. Until he comes though, living in this Universe is a horrible fate. Thus, you have religion.

One last thing. You have faith in everything you hear. Science is a faith. It is proved by induction. Things in science are changing all the time, after all most of the knowledge we have is in the last 400 years, most of that knowledge in the last 200 years. Walking down the street is an act of faith. You believe that no one will jump out of a corner and murder you. You have faith a car won't drunkenly swerve and hit you. Think about it. How can you have so much trust on a system that has only been right for the past 100 years, and how can you have so much faith in humanity when humanity created the nuclear bombs and has been at war with itself for its entirety? Logically, you cannot. But you do anyway. So don't look upon faith as something detestable. It is impossible to live without faith.

Thanks for letting me post. No hard feelings. I tried not to offend. Again, I am not Christian, nor brought up in a very Christian family. Just have a lot of respect for Christians.