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I would have to agree with you on this. A gun in every hand is just stupid. I live in Nebraska where there are more guns than people in the entire state, big hunting population here. I fully support the 2nd admendment and think that we should be able to protect ourselves and others, but there should be a limit.

I have to disagree w/ your point of view on this. The vast majority of people who are gun owners use them properly and are not going around shooting aimlously. Yes, there obviously are people who take advantage of their right to bear arms and shoot needlessly but they defintely are not the majority. Guns are not only used to murder w/out need and such. If we make tighter gun laws, people are just going to resort to buying more guns illegally. Guns don't kill;people kill.

So Sami, you're saying that if we took legal guns away, these same people would go buy them illegally, therefore gun control really wouldn't help. You said guns don't kill people, people kill people... Isn't that just like saying that Americans are just more violent then any other civilized society on Earth? I mean, Americans are the people you're referring to, right? Americans with guns.

In other words, if you think the murder rate would be this high regardless of whether guns were legal, then you're in effect shifting the blame from the guns to the gun owners. In principle I agree with this but it doesn't change the fact that we have a problem with weapons.

So if we have more violent people here, then isn't selling them all these guns a stupid thing to do? Do you think it's a wise idea to sell guns to violent people?

Now I understand that the vast majority of gun owners are not killers or even criminals, but the idea here is to eliminate guns from our society altogether with the goal of reducing the overall amount of gun crime. I mean, wouldn't it be great if over the next one 50 years we're able to remove so many guns from our streets that even our police officers no longer need to carry these lethal weapons? Seems crazy, but in England and Japan, the typical police officer doesn't carry a weapon. Are we too far gone in your opinion to have a safe, gun free society to live in? That's kind of sad, in a way.

In contrast, here in the US not only do our police carry guns, but because criminals have such powerful weapons available the police must now carry bigger and more powerful weapons - and wear Kevlar vests as part of a standard uniform.

Gun advocates are convinced that pouring more guns on the streets is the solution to our violent society but every day they are proven wrong as the murder rate in the US remains far above the rest of the civilized world. Pouring gas on a fire won't put it out. You can argue with me over whether people kill or guns kill but that's just semantics. You can't argue with the numbers. We have the most guns, and we have the most gun crime. It's just that simple.

Im a firm believer that the Guns on the whole are not the problem. Illegally obtained guns are used to commit most gun crimes. Dont punish the people following the law, enforce it.

I think banning guns is akin to bringing back prohibition to stop drunk driving. Its a method of attack but it wouldn't be the solution.

How do so many unregistered guns reach the streets? Stop or slow the flow of guns to the streets. They will eventually become scarce. Ban the guns without stopping the gunrunner's & your just punishing the citizens.

There are serious law enforcement deficiencies in this country. Trained men & women cannot stop high school dropouts from smuggling contraband into this country.

Do we just not have enough officials to do the job or are their methods just not working?

There are other countries with a higher homicide rate than the U.S. that does not involve guns. That would argue less guns would not necessarily lead to less crime or violence. The Swiss for instance all seem to be packing automatic weapons but there are not a lot of shootings in that country. They do however have a lower population but they are still under the norm.

I can pull up all the stats for every country in the world, but I feel the stats dont tell the whole story. It is more complicated than that.

When someone decides to take anothers life, gun or no gun their going to achieve that goal by any means necessary.

Ditto to what NW said.

"So Sami, you're saying that if we took legal guns away, these same people would go buy them illegally, therefore gun control really wouldn't help."

Not all these gun owners would, but I'm willing to bet the majority of gun owners who use their guns in legal manors would not be defying the law by buying these guns,(if they were illegal to buy) so these people, who respect the law by following it, are the people that will be punished.

"So if we have more violent people here, then isn't selling them all these guns a stupid thing to do? Do you think it's a wise idea to sell guns to violent people? "

I am not a gun owner and I do not know exactly who and who cannot buy guns but I would like to see everry gun owner take a gun safety class. I'm pretty sure that a felon (or maybe just somebody that has a violent felony on their record) cannot buy a gun, so that helps some what to keep guns out of the wrong hands.

" wouldn't it be great if over the next one 50 years we're able to remove so many guns from our streets that even our police officers no longer need to carry these lethal weapons? Seems crazy, but in England and Japan, the typical police officer doesn't carry a weapon. Are we too far gone in your opinion to have a safe, gun free society to live in? That's kind of sad, in a way."

It would be absolutely just wonderful if police didn't have to use guns, but I don't think you are addressing the problem here. We could make it so that gun ownership is 100% illegal but the criminals are still going to obtain these weapons and therefore we will still have a problem.

Guns can help protect us and our love ones from possible danger. Take them away, and it wont be as possible in some situations to do so. Guns help keep some animal population down. Take them away, and we have excess of some animals that are going to die when they hit our cars or because there isn't enough food or some other reason. I could go on and on why we need guns in our society today. I honestly think, the good outwieghs the bad.

We are not England and we are not Japan. If you like the way of living better there move! It really irritates me when others compare us to other countries. I don't think it helps do any good except focus on the negative. I am a proud United States of America citizen. I knowledge that we are not perfect in any means. And yes, we have problems but I don't think we are blind to these problems and there are many people out there striving to help eliminate these problems.

So your solution to the millions of deadly weapons on our streets is to add more deadly weapons to protect us from the millions of deadly weapons already on our streets? Oy veh. Where is Jon Stewart when I need him?!

The solution to guns is NOT more guns!

And your other opinion is that Americans are unable to learn to live without these millions of deadly weapons (like some other cultures who at your request shall remain ignored and unstudied), and if you don't like it, you say, then get the f**k out. Gotcha. I'll order earplugs and blinders for the US population just in case any of them have the stupid idea of looking at what other smart people do to solve complicated problems. After all, we're Americans right? We don't need no stinkin' wisdom!

Pardon my sarcasm. It kind of irritates me when people say, "if you don't like the US exactly the way it is today, then move". That's like saying that you only care about democracy so long as it suits your current interests. Democracy thrives on discourse, like this blog. Perhaps if you were in charge of the blog, you'd ask me to move to another blog for suggesting things you don't like...?

The fact is that we live in a gun culture. You yourself are so caught up in it, you can't even imagine a time in our future where guns are no longer required. I agree it's hard to imagine with so many guns everywhere, but it's certainly possible if you try. Yes, criminals can obtain guns easily because they are everywhere. Stop selling guns to everyone and start removing them from the streets, however, and eventually it will become difficult (and more expensive) for criminals to get them. Duh.

Today, criminals have no problem getting guns, but those guns were all purchased originally by your so-called law abiding citizens, so the laws protecting people by limiting who can buy guns are virtually worthless. You need to cut off guns at the source. Law abiding citizens will not suffer with the elimination of guns from our society. That's a farce put forward by the gun lobby. No one is going to suffer by removing guns! That's like saying we're all suffering now because we don't all own grenade launchers. The real suffering occurs dozens of times a day across this nation when someone gets shot. There's additional suffering for the families of those people who are shot. There's additional economic suffering from lost tourism due to our growing international reputation (which you probably ignore) as a violent and unsafe country. And what of the burden to tax payers who incur expenses paying for medical care for those wounded or killed? The list goes on and on. Saying law abiding citizen suffer from restrictive gun laws might be slightly insulting to people who have genuinely suffered as a result of gun violence, but please, feel free to tell them that yourself.

So to be brief, I disagree with you. The good does NOT outweigh the bad done by having so many weapons on our streets. Parts of Los Angeles are more like a war zone then I think you may realize, and guns have been a problem in other large metropolitan areas for decades. One in every 200 people in the US is in prison and our prisons are bursting at the seams from overpopulation. Many of these offenders will be put back on the street prematurely as a result, and all will have easy access to guns.

In 1999/2000 there were 12,658 murders in the US compared to 1051 in France, 960 in Germany, 746 in Italy, 850 in the UK, 637 in Japan, 494 in Spain. Sorry - this is the first data I could find. I wasn't in the mood to search for more recent numbers. I'm sure they are similar.

I believe there should be more regulations put on guns but I don't believe getting rid of guns completely is the answer. My parents have owned an outdoor sporting good store my whole life and yes they sell guns. There are precautions they have to take before they are able to seel the gun to a person, backround checks and often a waiting period of some time before the person can get the gun. There are alot of illegal things that go on in the world and that isn't a reason to take away everybodies rights. There are dumb people out there yes but the majority of people that own guns use them for hunting not for drive bys.

A Man I think you have taken what I have said and rearanged it to the way it suits you.

"So your solution to the millions of deadly weapons on our streets is to add more deadly weapons to protect us from the millions of deadly weapons already on our streets? Oy veh. Where is Jon Stewart when I need him?!

The solution to guns is NOT more guns! "

Just because I am opposed to making it illegal for guns altogether does not mean I want to sell guns more easily and more of them! Please read my throughly before you make such an assumption.

"Pardon my sarcasm. It kind of irritates me when people say, "if you don't like the US exactly the way it is today, then move". That's like saying that you only care about democracy so long as it suits your current interests. Democracy thrives on discourse, like this blog. Perhaps if you were in charge of the blog, you'd ask me to move to another blog for suggesting things you don't like...? "

Well you know what I don't like? I don't like Americans who only b*tch and complain about how things are done in America while they sit back and do nothing to change it, but they sure are quick to compare other *better* countries to us. If you don't like something do something about it other than sit and type about it on the internet in useless spots.

"Today, criminals have no problem getting guns, but those guns were all purchased originally by your so-called law abiding citizens, so the laws protecting people by limiting who can buy guns are virtually worthless"

Where are you getting your information? Have you ever heard of the blackmarket? Can some of these guns not be purchased through it by criminals? Those laws are not worthless but regardless ANYBODY can purchase a gun regardless of who they are the laws just make it harder for them to do so and illegal.

" The good does NOT outweigh the bad done by having so many weapons on our streets"

That's because you have ONLY looked at the negative. Could you turn your cheek a bit more? Ignorance is NOT bliss.

"In 1999/2000 there were 12,658 murders in the US compared to 1051 in France, 960 in Germany, 746 in Italy, 850 in the UK, 637 in Japan, 494 in Spain. Sorry - this is the first data I could find. I wasn't in the mood to search for more recent numbers. I'm sure they are similar."

It's funny you ONLY compared to the lower murder rates countries. Are you saying we have the highest murder rate of all countries? If so, you are completely and uterly wrong. I was reading an interesting article.

1997 Justice Department report on murders in the U.S. shows that our country has a murder rate of seven victims per 100,000 population per year. There are a number of well-known examples of countries with more liberal gun laws and lower murder rates than the U.S. One is Finland, with a murder rate of 2.9. Israel is another example; although its population is heavily armed, Israel's murder rate is only 1.4. In Switzerland, gun ownership is a way of life. Its murder rate is 2.7.

By contrast, consider Brazil. All firearms in Brazil must be registered with the government. This registration process can take anywhere from 30 days to three months. All civilian handguns are limited in caliber to no more than 9mm. All rifles must fire handgun ammunition only. Brazilians may only buy one gun per year. At any one time, they may only have in their possession a maximum of six guns: two handguns, two rifles and two shotguns. To transport their guns, citizens must obtain a special police permit. CCW permits are available but are rarely issued.

Therefore, it should not be a revelation to anyone that Brazil has a thriving black market in guns. Virtually any type of gun is available, for a price. Incidentally, Brazil's murder rate is 19 victims per 100,000 population per year.

Gun control in Mexico is a fascinating case study. Mexican gun laws are simply draconian. No civilian may own a gun larger than .22 caliber, and a permit is required to buy one. All guns in Mexico are registered with the Ministry Of Defense. Guns may not be carried in public, either openly or concealed.Mexico's murder rate is an eye-popping 17.5. Mexican authorities are fond of blaming the high murder rate on firearms smuggled across the border from the United States. Nonsense. The U.S. has many more personal guns than Mexico, yet our murder rate is far lower than Mexico's. It is Mexico's absurd gun laws that prevent law-abiding citizens from protecting themselves against illegally armed criminals.

I could cut and paste more but that makes for a long post but I am more than happy to provide you the link if you would like.

A huge number of important, true and interesting points have been made by all sides on this debate.

But I really have to ask...

Why are you all ignoring Canada?

I mean HELLO you don't have to cross the ocean to find a poopulation of people with a low murder rate AND gun control. It's right here. Here we are! Over here. RIGHT FREAKIN" HERE!!!!!!

Now, I know we suck in a lot of ways. I really and truly know that. We think we're SO morally superior.. but the truth is, we don't have a lot of gun crime. Why? For the very simple reason the Man pointed out... there are no firearms (either legal nor illegal) on the seats of cars next to road-rage infected drivers or in the nighttables of cheated-on spouses.

you CAN have a gun here. WE aren't devoid of them altogether.. but it isn't a "done thing" in our society. People are not allowed to, nor do they want to - walk around with weapons. No one would think you're a doof if you didn't have one. And I think you really have to admit that it helps to reduce gun crime. I mean, you'd have to be a complete idiot not to admit that NOT HAVING GUNS AROUND helps to reduce deaths caused by guns.

Stabbing, on the other hand.. we're big into that.

I would like to point out that the reason for owning a gun to protect yourself against other people with guns is assinine as far as i'm concerned.

Nobody wins in a gun fight. Especially since most people arn't dead-eye dick & bystanders can be shot.

Miss N. did make a valid point about stabbings that goes along with what I said. Guns or no guns people will find a way to kill each other if the really want to.

What's the difference if someone dies from a shooting, stabbing, or grenade launcher?

Their still killed.

The issue arent the guns, but who uses them. But, as Miss N pointed out, better legislations is needed.

The problem with most debates on this is the

BAN ALL GUNS

vs

NO GUN CONTROL!

IMHO, banning guns will not help. If someone has the personality that would use a gun in a crime, there is no law that will prevent that.

IMHO, No gun control is the opposite extreme.

The answer is what I call sane legislation. I dont see that happening in todays politcal structure. Big $ lobbys on both sides will prevent sane legislation.

With the proper laws, I think guns have a place in society. I do think certain types of firearms should be banned, but not a blanket banning. I think armor piercing type rounds should be banned. Those are designed to kill armor protected (vests et al) targets. Only humans have that capability.

Proper legislation can be achieved if our elected officials will leglislate on what is right, and not what is partison.

Just to add my $0.02: I come from a military background where I've trained with firearms ranging from handguns to heavy machine guns. I realize my point of veiw may have some bias. 1. Guns are a simple weapon. You create an explosion in a sealed tube which pushes a projectile out at a high rate of speed. They've been in existence since the 1700's and because of their simplicity, they can be created by anyone with the will to create one. 2. I had an interesting conversation with a fellow marine reservist who happens to be a police officer in Idaho. He claims that 80% of the crime in our country is DRUG RELATED. I think it would be interesting to compare a nations drug problem with the number of gun deaths. It would certainly explain why USA, Mexico & Brazil have such high rates of gun deaths per capita regardless of gun restrictions while a country like Swizterland, with a population armed to the teeth, or Finland where everyone is conscripted for mandatory military service, has such low gun deaths per capita. I would hypothesize then, that the number of gun deaths is directly linked to the proportion of the drug problem in a country.

I think an unarmed police force is idealistically wishful thinking, even though it seems to be working well in the UK (how much of a drug problem do they have?). Police are trained not to be trigger happy and use guns as a last result if all else fails, including non-lethal methods of incapacitating people (pepper spray & tazers). Because of the good training and general good judgement of police officers, there are very few shooting incidents -- and when they do occur, the police officer who shot is immediately put on administrative leave pending a thorough investigation.

3) It is illegal for felons to posses a firearm of any type. I don't know if that is actually an enforcable law, and I wouldn't bet my life on it. I have a feeling that it's something the courts generally use to steepen the consequences when booking someone for a crime they commited. However, I don't feel threatened enough in my environment that I feel I need to have a gun accessible for self-defense.

4) This may sound cliche, but our forefathers intended for us to have guns as a means to overthrow an oppressive government if the need arises. You could argue that the US government is not oppressive enough to warrant having guns to overthrow it. I agree. However, it may not be the US government which we need to resist. Turn back a few years in history to when Nazi Germany was reigning in Europe, and the SS & Gestapo were raiding homes searching for Jews. I can guarantee that if I lived in that time period and I had a gun to resist with, there would be dead people. Sure, the US isn't going to be raided anytime soon by a foreign country, but the right to bear arms is an idealogical inalienable right to defense which applies to ALL humanity, including foriegn countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, and African countries where people have to fight to survive. It may sound silly, but US Military forces allow Iraqi's to have one AK-47 per household for self-defense. Sometimes they use their guns to shoot us.

Here's a story I heard from a close friend whose son is a police officer who did a Meth related arrest in central Washington State: A police officer pulls over a car for speeding late at night. Upon further investigation, the officer notices ingredients and equipment common for someone that cooks Meth (worst drug ever) and arrests the driver for conspiracy to create meth. Then the driver says the following: "You're lucky tonight." Officer: "Oh really? why is that?" "Because usually we have two guys on guard armed with AK-47's"

I like to shoot the M-16 semi-automatic rifle on the rifle range for marksmanship & training. It's fun to shoot a man sized target from 500 meters away. Although I haven't been to a civilian firing range, I think I should have the same right to practice marksmanship as a hobby using assualt rifles if I want. I think thats a legitimate interest.

I agree with DNGB8 that disarming everyone is an extreme solution. I would also agree that most people don't have a legitamate reason for possessing military grade weaponry like rocket launchers, grenades or fully automatic machine guns. Assault rifles are a gray area.

I think that to create the best "Sane" legistlation, we should use a principle of negotiation with representatives from all interest groups and find the raw base interests and motivations each group has and address each cause and determine a reasonable solution which satisfies the most interests.

I also think that it's absolutely necessary for America to get drugs out of our society. 80% of crime is drug related?! Think about that for a while, and then think about paying taxes for our prison population...I think it would be more worthwhile for everyone to focus their efforts on getting rid of drugs instead of getting rid of guns.